139060-suggestion-regarding-need-or-roll-people-always-press-need
Content ---- ---- ---- Well i do play with some old people and they do know how to use the loot system but now mostly everyone is new and almost its just need for everything without knowing what roll he is going to play, Just because the item is Blue then hell its NEED for all.. But as a tank, I get the most dmg and try hard to keep everyone safe yet its hard to give nice reward for the effort Edited October 8, 2015 by Ayman | |} ---- ---- Actually you could make things personal like the world bosses and that would eliminate any loot competition | |} ---- ---- Dude, I know that feel all too hard. I've spent the better part of 11 years playing WoW. You don't even know how many times I've been tanking a dungeon and had some random shmoe dps roll need on tank gear, win it, and then act like -I'M- the jerk when I call them out on it. It's frustrating as all get out when it happens but you can't really make a perfect system. WoW's personal loot system is perhaps the closest to 'fair' that I've seen but it relies more heavily on RNG for doling out loot. It can sometimes be worse to run a dungeon 3 times and get no loot from a personal loot system than to run it 3 times and simply lose out on gear you see drop that you need to someone else. | |} ---- ---- ---- I've always been one for utilizing your ability to communicate with the community in order to make your game experience better, as opposed to getting randoms in a queue who may loot for anything. Instead of putting this on the developers of the game to give you limitless options you should take advantage of this being an MMO and team up with some other people instead of trying to solo the game. Please leave the instant gratification to single player games. | |} ---- ---- Pretty much this. We've made it clear in our runs that we expect people to roll greed on everything unless this is something they actually need, or have joined the instance run for to obtain. An especially stuff like runes, elements and what not is always greed, since everyone can use those. | |} ---- I know right? I used to pass on loot that I perceive as "they need it more than I do", or items that are of no use to me, like tarnished eldan gifts, orange imbue thingamajig. Then I was actually told to 'stop passing on things. If you don't want it, give it to me.' >_> Attitudes can change? Dude! It's easier to move mountains than to change someone's attitude. Haven't you heard of that phrase? :P | |} ---- The group is not always available or some friends to do dungeons all the time with you, Sometime you will enter alone and go solo with others to earn something in return and to gain some xp but if carbine improved the loot system then it would be perfect, Example we are going 1 tank 1 healer and 3dps, If an item drop that meant to be for a tank and its better then your gear maybe giving the chance for the tank to get it because its annoying seeing dps who is dying 3-4 times getting it. Trust me only tank person will understand what do i mean because he will use everything he have just to get aggro and to keep everyone safe YET a new person came along get an important item that the tank really need but he will sell it or salvg it.. | |} ---- DPS is not as "unimportant" in this game as in other MMOs. A good DPS can do a lot more for a dungeon run with a competent tank/healer than a good tank/healer can do with 3 competent DPS. (Which doesn't solve your original problem- but in this game the skill of the dps matters quite a bit). Edited October 8, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- I have heard of it, I must admit. But that's me thinking they've been perverse, I think the word is. I know I've changed through the years, so I believe others have and can as well. It's possible as long as people want to. I suppose some dont want to :) But playing with people with a similar mindset make the game into something else, something really good. Not having greed taking over. Pro Tip! Keep those non-greedy people you meet around you! | |} ---- Just because someone is a tank or healer does not make them MORE deserving of a reward. That said people should not need on stuff they are not going to use. Unfortunately short of going 100% to personal loot there is no way to people from needing on anything they are able to need on for their vendor spec. This is has been true in pretty much every game I have played. My basic way of playing is I will need on what I am going to use. If I see other players needing on everything in that run then I will start needing on everything myself just so they don't automatically get everything. | |} ---- I didnt mean it that tank and healer have to deserve more but maybe something to be fair because of the way how some players being so greedy that do NEED everything without giving one single care about the other person who need that item so badly | |} ---- You are wrong, YOU CAN roll need if you are both warriors and you can use it, even if you played as DPS and the item is for TANK you can press NEED, that heavy BS right there, NEED should be ONLY for the role you played. | |} ---- Can't you read? I said exaclty the same thing you said. lol You can't roll need for a item that aren't for your Class, but if you're DPS you can roll Need for a Tank Gear and sadly we can't prevent it. | |} ---- The is when you start needing also and may the highest roll win. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Well, I hope they can improve the system to be more better that's all what we and i asking for, I dont think its going to be that hard. | |} ---- I've always hated this mentality. If you're a tank, you shouldn't roll on DPS gear that somebody else needs. If there's no one else that can use that dps gear? Fine then, take it. If the dps that can use it doesn't roll need on it? Take it. If they roll need on it, maybe at least ASK if you can roll since you want to keep a dps set going for your own reasons. If you can't put up with DPS queue times you don't get to use your filling a vital role as justification to take gear that somebody else needs. You being the tank or the healer doesn't give you first dibs just because you volunteered for that role. In a perfect world people would only role need on things that they immediately need (i.e. this item is an immediate upgrade for what I am doing right now) and in the case that they need it for what they are not immediately doing they understand that their need in that circumstance is secondary. Need before greed is as imperfect a loot system as anything else and the flaws inherent to it all lie in player mentality. Edited October 9, 2015 by Mumboejumboh | |} ---- No one will understand that especially now there is alot of new people coming day by day. | |} ---- welcome to free to play, i hope you like the curtains That doesnt help much ... if u are looking to gear up and are afraid of this then take atleast another person of your class ... Anything won in a dungeon (raid definitely) should be tradable for 2h to the people resent for the kill If the above is wrong then attempting to buy Bind on Pick up items is just silly long story short: people are willies Edited October 9, 2015 by Genoshock | |} ---- Often people will be going into dungeons as dps to gear up to tank in the immediate future and vice versa ... but yes asking for the right to role on an item that you are not in the role for now is always best | |} ---- shouldnt need to understand anything ... it should be common courtesy .... | |} ---- ---- u cant be grouped with people on your ignore list ... so there is that atleast | |} ---- ---- ---- Good to know, I wish this was an account level list though, and not specific to one character. | |} ---- ---- Just a question that i am wondering about. What happens if said dps which is very good cant dodge even a single red zone. Yet the tank dodges it all while the boss is on him. What does that mean? Because i am always the tank in dungeons and the dps cant dodge one damn thing, I must have run into at least 5-10 decent dps that i saw them dodging over staying still and dealing dmg this day. EDIT: What i am trying to say is if are these dps worth the gear ? Because personally , being able to recognize when you should not deal dmg and dodge attacks (which is pretty easy to understand when a boss is doing a certain attack Stormtalon for example ) stands in top of my list over dealing dmg. Sure have the highest dmg in the whole party, I couldnt care less if you cant even dodge a simple thing. EDIT2: Now as for the need or greed or pass, I need on tank gear that I ACTUALLY need. If i see a dps item and a second warrior is in party, I ALWAYS ask him/her if they need that item or if they dont, if they need it I greed/pass it if they dont I do need. Edited October 9, 2015 by Darkarhon | |} ---- Then that dps is not "very good". Being "good" at DPS in this game is WAY more than gear and pumping out numbers. That was kind of my point. This game puts a lot of burden on DPS to not be brain dead and actually play well. This means positioning well, having situational awareness, and don'ts standing in the red. All while being able to put up good enough numbers to get through the encounters. Having done all three roles in dungeons, while the tank and healer have the most *responsibility* in the dungeon, the dps role is actually the more challenging one. Which means you really need the whole group firing on all cylinders to be truly excellent. | |} ---- But you don't take the next problem into consideration. The extra long queues for dps shouldn't have to be a punishment. It's good if dps choose to queue as tank and healer as well, because it evens out the queues and it'll be faster for everyone in the long run. That's something that should be encouraged. It'll mean way less time in queues, everyone get a taste of the other perspective and hopefully a better understanding of it as well which Will improve their other role because of it. I'm a firm believe that a player that understand how and why you move and do as you do being a tank or healer, will be a much better dps as well. Because you understand fights in a much better and detailed way. So short story, wanna be a better dps? Tank and/or Heal some at times. Back in Rift, I queued as Tank, Healer & Dps on the same character every time. The Cleric class was pretty awesome like that, because it could. Because I did dungeons quite often and had to play all 3 specs, I did Need on all 3 as well. It just made sense. I had to tank and heal very often, but that should not be a reason to gimp my dps spec. Easy and simple guide line: Is the item an upgrade? Is the item going to be used? If No on any question, then Greed. If Yes on both, then Need. | |} ---- You don't run dungeons by yourself. I mean maybe you DO sometimes, I guess, but they're designed as group content. That means you have to work with other players and one of the fundamental aspects of social interaction is being polite. I personally don't consider it to be polite to just take gear 'because you can use (or as you would read: need) it' without certain circumstance. It's fine if nobody but you can use it, if the people of the right role that can use it don't roll need on it, or if you ask first and the other person who needs it consents to you rolling. Long DPS queues aren't a punishment. Long DPS queues are just a fact of life. A group requires more DPS than it does tanks or healers, yes, but the relative ease of performing a DPS role acceptably is significant compared to that of tanking or healing. This leads to a LOT more people playing as DPS for a variety of reasons. It's not a punishment that there are simply a lot of people that play it. The game isn't punishing you for your choices, it's just making you wait in the appropriate line to get to where you're going. If anything the longer queue time becomes punishment when you have to lose out on gear to privileged tanks and healers who feel they deserve to roll on things by virtue of being there and they get to be there significantly faster and more often than any DPS. So let me ask you this: If someone plays as DPS and gears as DPS and only rolls on DPS gear...is it fair for you to roll on things you "need" that they need when they don't do the same to you? Why should a DPS have to run a dungeon multiple times competing against not just other DPS but also the tank or healer for gear? Edited October 9, 2015 by Mumboejumboh | |} ---- ----